Family History Page
	Family Genetic History Page
	Ro(a)ch(e)s of Avalon
	Able Seaman - HMS Manchester
	Family Matriarchs
	Cambro-Norman & Irish Timeline
	FTM - Family - Short Version
	Economic Recovery - NOT!

Remember that there is no better weapon against this corrupt system than buying and taking possession of precious metals. Shun paper like the plague.

Money and power (politics) have always been around. So have we - our surname and our genetics. The elites have always caused us trouble; we have done our best to reciprocate. But there are lessons learned from the past that can help today. There is no need to re-invent the wheel if you are one of our surname. Why not build on accumulated experience and wisdom freely available to you?

I always laugh at the expression "Pandora's Box." That damn thing has been open enough in my lifetime alone to wear out the hinges. In fact, it may have been open more than it has been closed since WWII. When the burden of risk of a systemic failure is transferred from the power elite to the taxpayer, as we have seen happen, that removes the brakes. The result has ever and always been the same - implosion. Then after a time, someone crawls out of the rubble and begins anew. How often that is meant to happen, I don't know. A cat has how many lives?

With all my training and experience, when I look at the situation in which the West has placed itself, and I see the base character of so many of the population (not that I am any more than human myself), I simply see no way out of a repeat of the catastrophes we have brought upon ourselves so often over the course of history. At the end of 2009, consumer debt, as computed by Statistics Canada (at least a +/- standard deviation allowance for error in my experience) was almost 150%. Not to be judgmental, or morally-based in my observation - because I am neither, but by objective professional assessment, that is simply untenable. As someone in the EU resently observed:

The danger to America is not Obama or his predecessors, but a citizenry capable of entrusting men like him with the Presidency. [The same could be said of Canada since pre-Trudeau - when whatever else, most PM's were at least statesmen]. It will be far easier to limit and undo the follies of four decades of failed presidencies than to restore common sense and good judgment to a depraved electorate willing to have such men in office. The problem is much deeper and far more serious than the White House [or Parliament Hill], a mere symptom of what ails America.

Blaming the prince of the fools should not blind anyone to the vast confederacy of fools who made him their prince. The Republic [and what should be a Republic] can survive bad Presidents, who are, after all, merely politicians [puppets and fools by definition]. It is less likely to survive a multitude of fools such as those who voted them into office."

Forty years ago, some of the best minds in North America were furiously writing about the ultimate consequences of abandonment of "small C" conservative principles. The results they predicted are now unfolding. The old saying: "When the chickens come home to roost" was used often by these men and women in their attempts to warn of the danger of allowing government to take responsibility where the constitution said NO, i.e. of citizens abdicating too many of their responsibilities and freedoms in return for empty promises of safety and well-being.

To sum up; North Americans are an undisciplined and spoiled people who care for comfort more than freedom…. We will lose both unless we sacrifice much in the coming months and years. Strangely, and inexplicably, for reasons I cannot explain, I no longer give a damn. This clan of ours has stood yesterday; it stands today; and it should stand in future.

Perhaps common sense and sensible management of one's affairs is genetic - some of us do not inherit/some don't - but a critical mass has managed to do so thus far. There are no guarantees that this genetic inheritance can sustain, but one can hope. The laws of probability alone, given the sheer numbers of us, would seem to dictate a better-than-average chance.

For me, it's (Family) History and Genetics, now. I have driven my sword into the Earth and will now take my leisure. I'll be in the lounge on the Titanic, with a book and some nice music, iceberg or no bloody iceberg! My day has passed - no regrets!

Family History is not all musty libraries and genetics labs - it runs much deeper in many people emotionally and psychologically than they realize - perhaps because it had to do with survival and natural selection in the past or because we are not an entirely rational species --- sometimes - a good thing.

The poems below, I hope will resonate with some readers. There is a lot here, not all specific to my own family. You can simply point and click on the Site Map (at the top) to move around. The past, which you will see reflected here, has taught me much and given me the courage to deal with the problems of today. I wish the same for you.

At the top of the page, are our earliest Arms - those of Sir Richard FitzGodebert de Roch(e) - son of Godebert Flendrensis of Pembroke[shire] --- (Pembroch), Wales - reportedly settled there from Flanders by their patron, King Henry I, while Duke de la Roche (Normandy) - c. 1100 AD (if not before). Another version of "the facts" has Godebert born at Roch in AD 1096.

From Flanders - but not necessarily Flemish - any more than later being from Wales (Cambro-Flemish) would make us Irish. We were in Cornwall too - that didn't make us English. Genetics, race and family existed before borders. Six centuries in Ireland never made us Irish - as many an Irish (Gael) will happily take as much time as necessary to make plain, including those of my mother's own family. So I ask these people, "How much of our blood", and one answered, there can never be enough.

We - and it remains to be proven by DNA - might be Anglo-Frisian, Frisian, Saxon or Flemish NW European at least 2,000 years ago, with a lot of milling about in Western Europe and the Isles after that, followed by the Diaspora. Belgae has been ruled out in our case, but not for all Roche families, of whom there are some widely dispersed in Belgium. For now, we are either from the Benelux Confederation and/or NW Europe, prior to arriving in the British Isles. Then it was on to North America, while others of us went to AU/NZ, SA, SA and some are scattered because of military service in very strange places indeed.

I have satisfied myself to the extent possible that we are Frisian (NW & W European). Frisians are ethnic Germanic peoples living in coastal regions of what is now the Netherlands and NW Germany, but concentrated in the Dutch provinces of Friesland and Groningen and in Germany and North Frisia.

We are tall, big-boned, light-haired, blue/green-eyed and we have a rich history and folklore. Those "de Roch" from Wales are most likely "ours" at least racially (but there is no 100% certain scientific proof). We are getting closer, however, thanks to genetics. We are peaceful and even managed to get along with the Romans for a time, but, when taxes became repressive, we hanged their tax collector and defeated Tiberius at the Battle of Baduhennawood.

The Frisii were known and respected by the Romans, who even wrote about us. Tacitus did a treatise on what he decided arbitrarily to be the Germanic peoples in AD 69, describing them, and listing some tribes by name. Of the many tribes he mentioned, the name 'Frisii' is the only one still in use to refer unequivocally to the same ethnic group. But most northern "Frisii" would say they were Saxons.

Certainly the Saxons and Frisians were together and tucked up against the border of Denmark (or if you prefer, the Jutland Peninsula). We can thus safely be considered to have been among those labelled as Vikings, which, as with the Celts, is not a genetic or racial grouping at all, but a convenient label for a diverse number of similar groups - by language, religion, location, habits, allegiance, or simple being "other" from those doing the naming.

The surname itself is found all over Europe in many variants and appeared spontaneously over a period of several centuries in at least three haplogroups (distinct branches on the human genome or racial family tree - R1b, I and E3b.). Ironically, while modern genetics knows exactly what we are scientifically, pinpointing which of the different peoples, tribes or nationalities within which to place us has proven to be a challenge....because there has been so much racial mixing in Western Europe.

Taking the bull by the horns, by process of elimination - running parallel our genetic results with recorded history - haplogroups being the basis of our genetic and genealogical inheritance, sometimes helped match males of the same families or surname/s, and sometimes confirmed there is no connection whatsoever. But match historical dating of DNA with tribal migrations and things become as clear as circumstantial evidence can make them. DNA is nature's blueprint and footprint.

On a broader scale, with a little multi-disciplinary detective work, one can determine where and when a genetic type appears in history. A Haplogroup and what I call a set of "racial characteristics", and, combined with a reliable historical timeline, a high-probability assignment of origin can be made.

How Green was My Valley

Courage came to me from the height of the mountain, and with it came the dignity of manhood, and knowledge of the Tree of Life, for now I was a branch, running with the vital blood....and had brought forth sons.

I saw behind me those who had gone; and before me, those who are to come. I looked back and saw my father, and his father, and all our fathers, and in front, to see my son, and his son, and sons upon sons beyond.

And their eyes were my eyes.

As I felt, so they had felt, and were to feel, as then, so now, as tomorrow and forever. Then I was not afraid, for I was in a long line that had no beginning and no end.

The hand of his father grasped my father's hand, and his hand was in mine, and my son took my right hand, and all, up and down the line that stretched from Time That Was, to Time That Is, and is not yet.

They raised their hands to show the link, and we found that we were one, born of Woman, Son of Man, made in the Image, fashioned in the Womb by of the Universe.

I was of them, they were of me, and in me, and I in all of them.

Richard Dafydd Vivian Llewellyn Lloyd; Captain, Welsh Guard, 1944

The Grave-Stone

It is useless to puzzle yourself any longer over what is utterly illegible; the letters worn past all hope of deciphering a single sentence.

Come away.

And thus ends the last effort of poor humanity to perpetuate its cherished sorrows, or to display its pompous boasting, in the sight of posterity.

That old, mossy stone, with its half-shadow of a cherub's face peeping out from the broken outline of a pair of wings; its green and yellow patches of corroded surface, where the long inscription once appeared; and its slanting position, bending forward while it sinks sideways into the soil, that is the sole surviving memento of--what?

It is a memento; it says Remember ; but who or what is to be remembered?

All the wit of all earth's wise ones cannot discover. Nay, though, right under the cherub's chin, we may trace the course of the 'His jacket,' by knowing where it should stand; still no more is communicated than bare existence in that place made known.

It is a grave - its inmate long-tenanted in the silent dwelling - and here our information ceases.

Is it, then, idle and vain so to mark a spot, endeared, perhaps, to some fond breast far beyond all residue the globe contains?

No!

It is comely and befitting our nature so to do, a natural impulse, one among the multitude of unregarded evidences afforded of the doctrine of the mystical revealed to man from earliest times.

They are not only a sepulchre, preserving the human body after death to a pitch of perfection at which modern science can only gaze and wonder, when unrolling from its delicate wrappers the corpse of two or three thousand years' unchanged.

It bespeaks conviction that the spirit would re-animate its earthly tenement, yet in total ignorance of the Power that would gather up the scattered dust and say,

Lost in earth, in air, or main. Kindred atoms meet again.

(Transcribed from the 1 Nov 1849 issue of The Lurgan, Portadown and Banbridge Advertiser )

The Story Tellers...We are the Chosen

In each family there is one who is called to find the ancestors. They put flesh on their bones and make them live again to tell the family story, and to know that somehow they know and approve. Doing genealogy is not just gathering facts but breathing life into all whom have gone before.

We are the story tellers of the tribe. All tribes have one. We have been called by our genes. Those who have gone before cry out to us: ''Tell our story.'' So, we do. And, in finding them, we somehow find ourselves. How many graves have I stood before and felt at home? I have lost count. How many times have I told my ancestors, ''You have a wonderful family; you would be proud of us''? How many times have I walked up to a grave and felt somehow there was love there for me? I sense ''the old ones'' give birth or marry or die and I do feel afraid - they become real because they were real.

Genealogy goes to who am I and why do I do what I do? It goes to seeing a cemetery about to be lost forever to weeds and indifference, and saying ''I won't let this happen''. The bones here are my bones and the flesh is my flesh. It goes to doing something about it. It goes to pride in what our ancestors accomplished - they succeeded and failed; they struggled; they survived. How often have I heard hammer ring on anvil and armour and tackle rattle in the dark - not once have I been afraid.

It goes to respect what they were, who they were; their hardships; their losses; their never giving in or giving up, their will to go on and build a life for us. It goes to deep pride - they fought to make and keep us what we are - the best of us at least. It goes to a deep understanding that they were doing it all for us - that we might be born and be who we are; that we might remember them. And so we do - with love and gratitude and pride - recording each fact of their existence because we are them and they are us.

So, as a scribe, I tell the story of my family. It is up to the one called in each generation to answer the call. I had no choice. It was merely inevitable. And so I took my place in a long line of family storytellers. That is why I do family history, and that is what compelled me to do it. I know others will be called in turn to stop, reflect and restore flesh to bone; life to those at rest.

Unknown

An Introduction to the Subject

King Diarmait MacMurchada of Leinster William the Conquer's "Normans" and their allies, intermarried in Wales. Their offspring were (or should have been) known as Cambro-Norman, Cambro-Scandinavian or Continental-Cambrian. They certainly were NOT Anglo (English). This is not to say that Saxons may not have arrived in Ireland during incursions and settlements that occurred over the centuries after AD 1167/69-72. These mongrelized Norse, Flemish and Welsh were bribed into joining into joining an Irish Civil War by King Diarmait MacMurchada. If there was a villain in the piece, he was Gael - and he was aided and abetted by those who rallied to his cause in Leinster when he brought his mercenaries home! Yes, the Normans had had a Papal Bull years years before that telling Angevin King Henry II to invade (to benefit the Church), but they did not act on it - until a new Pope was in office, in fact. Nor, like other conquerors in the vicinity - from the Romans foreward would they likely have done so. Ireland simply wasn't worth it. A few Danes had established port cities there earlier, but even they found better opportunities elsewhere. They had certainly never bothered to expand, other than in their port cities - Dublin and Wexfordtown in particular. Their families followed in their wake as was their custom, and they, for the most part, left the locals alone. The Danes did gain the British Throne for a time, but they never challenged for the High Kingship at Tara. Parts of Britain were always the prize, and Ireland, Wales and Scotland were always the price. William the Conqueror carried the day in AD 1066 over several contenders vying for a title, any title and added Britain to his holdings in Europe. The Conqueror and his successors soon realized that the Welsh and Scots would be trouble, but they needed to do something about those who had helped them take the Island. They used an old trick out of Charlemagne's "playbook", and sent them to the borderlands - they became Marcher Lords - granted lands and titles - if they could take and hold them. By the time of the Conquest, the Normans were francite. They spoke French at Court and spent most of their time and energy anywhere but Britain. The SE of the Island was fertile. Whenever they could, the Norman Kings delegated authority, and stayed on the other side of the channel. This continued for generations. Had the Cambro-Normans invited to Ireland not done so well that they represented as big a threat to Henry II in Ireland as Wales and Scotland did to Henry I and other sucessors to the Conqueror, the Normans (or "Anglos") would have had recourse to a dated Papal Bull and never set foot in Ireland. In fact, the English did not gain control over the unruly Gaels and those called the "Old English", meaning Diarmait's allies - many of whom later went "native," for centuries to come. The Normans had no interest, until it was provoked by Diarmait. This was true of the whole Norman line of monarchs. They showed the flag occasionally, but always rode away again. King John was a bit of a nuisance, but it was only with the Plantagenet-Lancastrian Line around the time of Henry V, that things took a dark turn. Even then, had Diarmait stayed in exile, that might all have been avoided. Things finally reached crisis with Henry VIII [1485-1509] and afterwards with the English gaining control in AD 1603, at the end of the reign of Elizabeth I [1558-1603]. The Reformation began when Henry VIII, former "Protector of the Faith", decided he liked to change women (i.e. wives) on a regular basis, and the Church in Rome tried to stop him. He decided the solution was to start his own Church, and make everyone under his control convert. In the name of religion, the English began to do to the Irish what the Gaels had done to one another for centuries before the 12th. Injustice and atrocity were the order of the day....all because - to be blunt - Horny Henry wanted to get laid! The "English"are not all Anglo-Saxons - in fact, most aren't. They had been defeated by the Normans in AD 1066 and were ruled by Norman Kings. To suggest the there was a sustained Anglo presence in Ireland beginning in AD 1169, or that there was an Anglo Invasion that began Ireland's "troubles" in that year, is simply not correct. Then, as now, Ireland was divided into fifths - Munster, Ulster, Leinster and Connacht - with Meath, the seat of the largely symbolic "High Kings" at Tara. They fought amongst themselves like cats and dogs long before the Cambro-Normans and their allies (many of whom were Welsh Archers) ever appeared. The responsibility for what happened then, and for a long time afterwards, lies at the feet of an Irish King, Diarmait MacMurchada. It was his civil war with the O'Connors and O'Rourkes yet another boringly repetitive spat on an Island with too many "chieftains," despite romanticized illusions to the contrary. Diarmait and his fellow Kings had gotten to their positions of wealth and power over the severed testicles and gouged out eyeballs of many a competing Gael, even members of their own families. In this case, it was agreed that a small advance party led by a Knight, Sir Richard FitzGodebert de Roch, would follow Diarmait to Ireland in AD 1167 - to do reconnaissance. There is another story that they spent the winter with their new ally in his burnt-out home at Ferns, half starved. But these men were not stupid. They knew the art of war. To them, war was a business and a profession, so they went with the former King of Leinster for reasons other than to suffer the deprivations of an Irish winter. Had it been otherwise, as some have written, the Irish would have simply let them starve. But, when Diarmait's opponents heard there were "foreigners on the ground", they knew what it meant. He was back, after having been banished. They hunted the small party down, and de Roch lost twenty-five men in a one-sided encounter. Getting found out must have rankled more than the loss of his men. It certainly would not have impressed. By AD 1169, due to intelligence gathered two years earlier, Diarmait's allies were ready in force, and I doubt they had much trouble motivating Sir Richard to have another go in a more even contest. Even then, Strongbow - Richard FitzGilbert de Clare - with whom Diarmait had struck his deal - hung back to see how things would develop before he fully committed. Historic figures who lead from the rear have always troubled me, more than it does historians, apparently. There were several contingents of his men on the ground, some doing well, and some in real difficulty, awaiting Strongbow. It still took a letter from Diarmait and a trip to France by de Clare to be sure the Henry II was onside, before he put a foot on Irish soil with the largest force to date in AD 1170. With the oblique approval of a distracted Norman King, Cambro-Norman, Richard FitzGilbert de Clare, 2nd Earl of Pembroke, being out of favour with his King and deep in debt, had no other alternative but to try Ireland. His Seal (above) is there simply because the de Prendregasts were his leighmen, and the de Roch[e], in turn, both Flemish or "from Flanders," under the feudal system, were bound by knight's fees for land tenure to answer the call whenever it came and whatever the cause. Once "ready" - de Clare let his men, with the support of Welsh archers, go forth. He did not. Was he Anglo? NO! He was of mixed pedigree. These men had been given the thankless job of being Marcher Lords by the Normans. No matter what the best of them did, they were never accepted by the Welsh, because their good works were overshadowed by the evil done by the Normans. The Normans remained French for generations, and these half-breed Normans in Wales were not highly regarded. Once married into Welsh families, their rulers were no longer sure of their loyalty. And when de Clare could not even hold lands taken by his father, he was considered a disgrace. Aligned to greet the earliest arrivals were Diarmait; his son in law; and an Irish Army. He had baited Strongbow with a promise of both a Kingdom [upon his death] and the hand of his much younger daughter, Aoife (Eva). De Clare's idea of risk was to let others take it, and then follow along much later when events had proven that the mission was feasible. Far from welcome or secure in Wales - some hoped to find "a home" in Ireland. They were easy prey for Diarmait, with his gift of blarney, offers of booty - including land - and the promise of "a home". He assured them they would be welcome in Ireland, and they took the bait.

Richard de Clare - Aoife (Eva) MacMurchada Wedding

Note: Weis-Sheppard's Ancestral Roots, Seventh and later Editions, 1992-99 and Complete Peerage (CP) 10, p. 356, state that Eva/Aoife was the daughter of Diarmait, son of Donnchad MacMurchada and one of his wives, Mor, daughter of Muirchertach Ua Tuathail.

MacMurchada gained a Norman King's off-handed permission, and began recruiting. No Englishmen had the slightest interest. Diarmait soon realized he would have to "up the ante", and he moved on to Wales to find de Clare - knowing a likely target when he saw one.

The Earl, who had not even then been confirmed Earl, was one step from being in Diarmait's shoes. But even Strongbow was not interested in money; he had his mind set on land and land alone, a title and the revenue it might produce. Anything else was simply icing on the cake.

Princess Aoife was none too pleased to be offered up to de Clare, but had no choice. When he died, she wasted no time in advising the man in whom she did have an interest, and her choice of language, showed little love or respect for the Earl.

However, she was the means to make de Clare heir apparent to the Kingship of Leinster, under feudal law [not under Brehon Law]. In fact, as Diarmait well knew, and de Clare may not have known, this arrangement was something that flew in the face of Irish tradition. As presented, it was of irresistible appeal to the Earl who may not have known that Diarmait had set him up. After Diarmait died, a few years after these seminal events, de Clare learned that the Irish could be big on principle and he spent the rest of his life fighting them over succession.

But he had agreed to raise an army and reinstate Diarmait as King of Leinster for life - with himself in direct line of succession - Brehon (Gaelic Irish) Laws notwithstanding. It was the marriage of Irish Princess Aoife (Eva), likely an illegitimate daughter of the King of Leinster, that the dye was cast.

This Cambro-Norman Earl arrived at Waterford in August AD 1170 - he finally showed up a year after his men had landed, and he helped in taking and sacking the town. Were he and his men alone? Hardly. Diarmait's army of several thousand Irishmen, not to mention the "flower and the youth of Wales," were with them.

A political and military alliance, sealed by marriage, a custom of the times, meant there was no turning back --- it was do or die for Diarmait's Irish, Strongbow's mongrel Normans and their Welsh and continental allies. And the rest, as they say, is history - admittedly muddled - but there it is!

Despite the occasional shot across my bow in doing this project, Keating's "History of Ireland", written in AD 1758, by Abbe MacGeoghegan, and translated in AD 1831 by O'Kelly and Dineen in three volumes, ends with an interesting and gratifying comment.

Describing some of the kindly temperaments of the Roches in various parts of the country, he describes them as being rewarded by God for avoiding acts of treachery and performing many good deeds . He suggests their vast holdings and great numbers of descendants thriving in many parts of Ireland were blessings earned . God, however, seems to have later left us to our own devices.

MacGeoghegan had previously (Ch. 34) named five men who did more evil than all the Gaels put together from AD 1169 onward - Richard FitzGilbert de Clare; Robert FitzStephen; Hugh de Lacy; John de Courcy and Henry's man, William FitzAudelm .

He notes that many Roche heiresses, who left Ireland through marriage, could well have made claims against family lands, especially in Wales or Ireland, but they had moved to England, and made no such claims. He singles out for special commendation several family members, including those in the Wexford Branch who endowed the Church with Bergerin Island in Wexford Harbour in remembrance of their father - Rodbert - Adam, David and Henry de Rupe .

To see that honourable, charitable, generous and spiritual instinct recognized even by someone who might begrudge an enemy any type of acknowledgment feels good. I must admit that during my own prolonged visit some years ago, it was quite striking to see what the Roches had contributed to the Republic, not the least of which were their personal contributions and sacrifices to the cause of Irish freedom.

I would be the first to admit this was not, nor could it be, a consensus. But there seems, in general, more that is good associated with the name than many today are willing to acknowledge. Perhaps it is no accident that this was the time (c 1830) that my own pre-Famine ancestors joined the Diaspora. There was little more they could do for the Irish that they had not already done - 1798 and 1803 were really the endgame for us.

An AD 1247 List of Knights includes the names of new ''owners'' of grants promised by Diarmait, and later confirmed with some modifications by Henry II during his visit. Some even refer to that as an Invasion. It was not. Someone had done Henry the "favour" of murdering Thomas a Beckett at Church, trying to read the King's mind and win favour.

They failed, and Henry was in big trouble with Rome. He thought the only way to get back in the Pope's good graces was to do penance in Ireland, bring the Church there within the Roman sphere, and ensure the collection of a property tax, "Peter's Pence" for Rome. His visit worked like a charm...with great support from the Church.

By this time, Henry did not trust the Normans and instead brought an English Army, so they would not be tempted to "go over" to Strongbow. All he did was make a show of force - by virtue of the size of his army. Then the Church and civic officials - under threat by Rome - paid homage to Henry.

Strongbow did likewise, had some of his gains removed to avoid future problem with him, and when done, with the exception of a few trusted officials left behind to keep an eye on things, Henry took his army and left Ireland never to return. The one exception was that he left some to re-populate Dublin simply because Diarmait and his allies had run off or killed off the Danes there.

Cambro-Normans and others left with holding as originally granted by Strongbow were: de Prendregast (Prendergast), de Rupe (Roche) , de Heddon (Hayden), Howel, de London, de Bosco, Chever (Cheevers), Le Brun (Browne), Ketting (Keating), Purcell, de Wythay (Whitty), Cod (Codd), Deverous (Devereux), le Poeur (Power), Synod (Synott or Sinnott), Hey (Hay or Hayes) and FitzHenry [and this is not a full list].

Attitudes became negative towards the "Old English" during and after the Reformation - guilt by association - with those then running England and trying to commit genocide against the Gaels. We had too much self-respect to stay around for that, just as we had too much to engage in the behaviour that led to some of their above-named allies to act in a way that would ensure we would live on in infamy.

John F. Kennedy, visited the John Barry Memorial, Crescent Quay, Wexfordtown - 27 June 1963 (photo below). Kennedy, then President of the United States, saw his ancestral home at Dunganstown near New Ross. His great grandfather had left Co. Wexford in 1848, and settled in Boston. They were Famine Irish. By that time, we were long gone from the same area, but later migrations largely by-passed Newfoundland.

No matter, everything he spoke about and the location from which he sprang resonated of the same distant tradition. Our big weakness is that in important matters, we are too ethical - this can be seen in General Roche's Address of AD 1798. We expect the same from others. Some see this as weakness. It is naive of us to do so, and will always keep us "one down", yet the alternative, living our lives by the rules of the others - is too horrible to contemplate. That has been and continues to be our karmic dilemma.

The key seems to be not to rise too high – where integrity and credibility can be perceived as liabilities – to stay in the middle of the pack, do the right thing and not get found out. So far, it has worked for us on this side of the Atlantic.

The Late U.S. President John F. Kennedy,
Crescent Quay, Wexfordtown - 27 June 1963

The Kennedys are R1b genetically, but that is as far as it goes. We would never try, because we are never so inclined, to affect a relationship with the famous. I once asked, quite seriously, on an online medieval discussion list, why people do that - considering that the morals, ethics and behaviour of such people have often left so much to be desired.

A lady responded, taking grave umbrage, saying I must be either 17 or 71, i.e. childish or senile, to ask such a question. I still consider it valid. What is the attraction? I truly don't understand in most cases. Were I related to someone "worthy" by any reasonable standard, I might feel differently. But most rich, socially prominent and politically powerful people - because of their behaviour - I would not want to be linked with in any way.

I am content to be from a long line of honourable yeomen and lesser knights, who practiced their craft or ran their holdings to make a life for themselves and for the betterment of the community. They would, of course, as one writer has said, willingly leave the plow and take up the sword, when required. That I understand, and people of that sort are good enough [some might say too good] for me.

I would, nevertheless, like as many males of our surname as possible to do a genotest for matches - and I confess that is based on the fact that it would be nice to follow our line further back than paper records can take us. Provided there is some sort of supporting oral or documented data to help verify the findings, it would be worthwhile, no matter who might be hiding in the closet.

It would be a dull and lifeless family that did not have something they might have wanted kept quiet at the time. But these days, who cares? There has never been a better time to have a look backwards - I don't expect many saints in my line - but with luck - there won't be any homicidal maniacs either.

So please do consider it - men of the surname Roache - by any spelling - in any language - and of any race, creed, or colour. If you have hit a brick wall of your own in your family research, DNA testing has helped some find their long-lost roots.

There are several pages and many links on this Site. You will find Family History and a DNA Project, which has added considerably to group history, if not our personal family history. It has developed that our DNA is quite rare in Ireland. Gaps in the written birth, marriage and death records, especially in Ireland, and caused by the Penal Laws and "the troubles", leave us to pin our hopes on science.

But Roches - whether Haplogroup R1b [like us], I or E3b - can all be so ornery that people can be forgiven for thinking we are all related. We have people who have matched genetically - three in one case under R1b - all from Cork - and they don't talk to one another in any way that would be helpful??? Another is in the same haplotype we are, but migrated later and can't seem to grasp that there might be a way to fill in the gaps without doing unnecessary and irrelevant additional DNA tests.

Others have moved and not left contact information. And others, when they try to work together, just can't. One of my techniques - given that I can't possibly remember all the family data of the people I deal with fairly regularly, is to occasionally link 4-6 who appear to have something in common.

Often they fail to see what I see or are simply uncomfortable sharing information. Why someone would do family history and/or DNA testing and behave like that is totally beyond my understanding. All I ask is that they keep me in the loop in case the data will help someone else or match with other information in my files. Then I remember they are Roches, have a good chuckle, and get on with whatever I'm doing.

If you know your family history, you likely take a lot for granted. If you have lost touch with your origins, you know it leaves a "hole in the soul" that can make life more difficult. Some have yet to discover the emotional and psychological value of "ROOTS" - which have biological and behavioural implications - only recently understood and appreciated.

For others, the spelling and meaning of a surname are most important. People feel theirs MUST be "right". Some in my own family "feel" this way - subjectively - rather than through conscious effort, and a variant - no matter how legitimate - can evoke a profoundly negative response.

I would simply ask that such people offer others the courtesy they demand. I know of few, if any, surnames with only one spelling. We are all adults - and supposedly live in a "free" society - so we should be able use the spelling we prefer...without interference from opinionated and emotional relatives or others who happen to share the surname and to think there is only one spelling.

This issue is discussed at length on our Family History page...much of it "tongue in cheek", as I'm doing here. But, I see people who are so close to matching their data, and then back off, that I don't know whether to laugh, cry or ignore it. I think you can guess what my most common reaction is :-)

Being an alpha male - I confess, I am results-oriented. Holding to one spelling can make it impossible to do successful research. There is a simple explanation that summarizes the most commonly accepted (and fiercely defended) spellings in what is now our mother tongue:

Roache= My Surname

Roach= Fish

Roche= Rock

Roch= The First - Wales

de ROCH

De Roch is NOT Norman (it is NOT de la Roche], although often confused with it, because of intermarriage or other associations. Depending on whether spoken in hard or soft Gaelic (P or Q) , (understood or misunderstood) it was associated by the Normans with the surname ROCK (Modern English).

ROCH, common in Wales, even today - Normans heard it with a soft ending and thought "de la Roche"; when they heard it with a hard ending (as in Loch Loman), they translated Roch (k) into French so, again, it was "de la Roche". Irish writers, getting one over on the "invaders", have always written that it meant by, at, near or on a rock. The informed ones know better!

Often any name was based on the towns in or near which people lived. The placename often preceded the surname. It arose spontaneously all over western Europe during two centuries. The three Roachs on our arms some say was a pun on rock. Well, there are other Roche arms that have only lions, in various stances. What does they have to do with rock? Roche (various spellings) was, according to Reitstaps Armorial General, used earlier in France, Poland and Switzerland. With the Diaspora, it is, of course, now used worldwide in one form or another. One spelling - hardly. There are no hard and fast rules for ANY NAME.

I use the ROACHE spelling because it includes ALL English-language variants, English - being the modern "lingua franca" --- RO(A)CH(E) --- inclusive --- I like it. That's all - and that's enough - as it is for you too.

The thing that surprised me was the use of the same name in any of our three haplogroups ... only one includes us . We are R1b1b2g* (NW & W European/British Isles a.k.a Anglo-Frisian) - the asterisk means they have not fully classified us ... but they are satisfied that when the next SNP (snip) is found, it will confirm our placement on the genetic tree as 2g [also named R-U106] for convenience.

We are then most likely to have been located in Northern Germany-Scandinavia - with a possibility of being Saxon, Flemish or Dane (as in Jutes from the Jutland Peninsula) during the last two millenia at least. There is a small probability that we could be from some smaller, but related, tribe located in the same area - from the Danish border to Belgium, the British Isles, and spreading out from there. A surprise was that it is a rare type in Ireland, [our kind of R1b that is], and our first forebears in North America claimed to be from Co Wexford.

It's not about spelling or nebulous genetics; it is the name that is important. But you need to understand that behind that it is something within or beyond nationality, and then a much broader human inheritance. We are all part of the human race - no monkeys, apes, cavemen or little green men from Outer Space!

As for the Myths of Creationism (seven days and voila!) or Evolution with all its gaps and illogical transitions (given enough time, anything can happen) - if you can handle either, and you're an adult, Santa Clause, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy should come easily. Why not go the whole nine yards and accept that life is a mystery?!

Our Life Mission: bear the Name well; do it Honour.

Our Surname DNA Project

A small number of our surname have tested - something over fifty - and already - THREE Haplogroups - no relationship whatsoever. Yet the name is the same. Please Test Now - We Need Additional Data!

You can find out how by using the Menu above, and some might like to know there was an ancient Gaelic name similar to ours. There's a story in Celtic Mythology about a raiding party from Connacht (variously spelled) and one from Ulster.

Led by a warlord named Medh, it was under King Conchobhar from the royal centre of Emain Macha. Both sides fielded the best warriors from among their aristocracy. Among Conchobhars fighting men were the likes of Ferghus mac Roich and Conall (Con) Cernach. They were headstrong and young, like the main character, Cu Chulainn.

So we have Roich , but we don't have is the rest of the story. DNA tests have proven we are not Gaels, but there may be Roichs (now Roches).

Over six hundred years, my family may have been in Ireland; I don't like that British notion of "more Irish than the Irish", but I know we did become Hibernicized. You can blame the Irish women who liked the look of a big swaggerin' Frisian. But our family can relax - we are not Gaelic Roich (we just act like it from time to time!!!):

From ancient Rome to the present (possibly because of the crowds at football "matches"), the real nature of the Celts has been hidden by a tangled web of stereotypes. But being a Celt is like being a Viking, an Indian or an Afro-American. These are over-simplified and generic terms that cover a multitude of peoples and/or tribes, often quite different from one another. Just keep that in mind.

On site, there is information about our family matriarchs: Cullen, Allen, Lawlor and McCauley. I was once accused of being a sexist swine for not having done them credit - when I was working on the page as it happens! These ladies certainly contributed to the diversity of our genetic code, and I wanted to do them justice. Other links are more general and will help anyone with an interest in history, as well as information about other surnames.

Comments-Questions? Click on Feedback Icon above. I do not want to mislead people with that Icon - I CANNOT do Research!

The volume is just too high each day. What I can do is offer advice; suggest ideas to put aside (because they will make your search more difficult); and share a few tricks I have picked up over the years. The hard work, you do, as I have done - or you pay professionals to do it - always an option - and one I have used myself with varying degrees of success.

So Relax, Enjoy and Learn.

But please feel free to use your browser's Forward or Back Icons to escape!

Now, a little personal information, so you will know something of the source of the information here....

I had always thought of myself as Irish[-]Canadian . But our great-great grandparents, John Roach(e) and Jane (Culle[i]n) are proving elusive. After all, their forebears likely arrived in Ireland 1167-72; earlier or later --- no time at all in the Irish mind.

Before that, they were likely in Wales - for less than a century (although some stayed longer) - or on the continent - likely wherever Saxons, Flemish, Frisians or Danes had settled.

I am a retired broadcaster and civil servant; and have lived and worked all across Canada. We were promised a "home" in Ireland. It never worked out....just the "blarney'' of an Irish King; the damage compounded by what was done later by Henry VIII; Elizabeth I and Oliver Cromwell during the reformation.

Now, we are at the four corners of the earth -- with few complaints and no regrets!

Here is forever, a lifetime, and I'll bide awhile.
The struggle for place was hard and wild - but, look closer, you can see my smile?

Olde Ireland
A spectre that haunts; an essence that comforts....
A land of shattered dreams; yet a magical isle.
There lived myth and fable and whimsy!
The dream, like all dreams, held for a time.
Things have all changed now, and for me that's just fine.

Now who would have thought......3 September 2009 - they're Europeans. You never know what a Gael will do next :-) With one leap to the east, can they leave the "the troubles" behind.

Seems it's time to turn the sword into Euros....How can they Not now!? The decent thing is to wish them well, and we'll do that. Here's hoping today's decision works out well for all!

We of the rock, the fish, the lion and the name --- neither recognized nor acknowledged --- wherever we are around the planet were in fact globalists before anyone thought of the name - we were and are everywhere. It has worked well for us; we can only wish the same for the new Europeans.

It will take a little getting used to thinking in those terms of course. But time marches on, and it is best to be resigned and accepting of whatever the Fates hold in store....but ready to deal with the good and the bad. So the European Union it is then!

So be it. We remember.
We'd mourn,
Were she to flounder.
After all is said and done.
Only the Best for Ireland,
Now Our Day is Done!

THE RISING OF THE MOON

traditional

How well we fought for Ireland
And full bitter was our fate
What glorious pride and sorrow
The names of "Ninety Eight"
Yet, while our hearts are beating
Each bears a burning wound
We will follow in their footsteps
At the rising of the moon.

Born in Newfoundland. Living in Ontario.

Planet Earth may be the Future.

But Canada is Home, yet there's Work to be Done!

Like most countries, we are ruled by the rich, arrogant, cynical and remote. They constantly tell us, and their message is parroted by the media, that Canada is strong. They blame the U.S. for our "Made-in-Canada" problems. If only.....

If you are a Canadian, STOP for a MINUTE and THINK.

Is This A Country You Want to Lose by Default?

Me - I bite and fight when there's no other choice!

But I'd rather NOT!

Be in touch...if you like:

Just Point & Click on E-Mail above.

Some things never change ... they are cyclical ... like us come to think of it ... creating an illusion of change. That's neither negative nor positive; it is simply a fact. To think otherwise is to fly in the face of the history.

Everything passes......in time.

There's only one real problem in the universe - it walks upright on two legs - you have to be vigilant, but not paranoid. There were, are and always will be those from the dark side, but their meager doings are utterly futile in the vast sweep of the history.

Life goes on - passing us all by.

Don't sweat the small stuff - and it's all small stuff!

A Warning about the Internet

Misuse of the Web provides an excuse for those who want to "protect" to "regulate" and to "control". So knock it off!

Find people of like-mind to protect all that is good online. If we don't, it will be co-opted for nefarious purposes by the powerful, the criminal and the moronic.

Free speech is the lifeblood of democracy. We are now poised to slip into totalitarianism by default. I hoe people wake up before it's too late - but it unlikely.

Rights and privileges are paid for in blood; then squandered and returned to those from whom they were rightly taken in the past. We tried to change the world in the 60s, and failed....because we couldn't change people....even ourselves. Canadians have given up.

In their spare time, they could read a little history. Find me one example where surrender proved was a viable option!

Freedom has been considered ours by divine right. Planet Earth calling! That is not how things work. There is much that needs putting to right in Canada; much that is wrong and unjust; and fixing it won't happen by magic or by itself. It definitely won't happen if the people surrender their power to government.

Remember the old ones - now gone. If we fail to grasp the torch and hold it high, we aren't worthy of the blessings the fates and our forebears won for us. That leaves three options - adult, childish and aggressive:

What we have - Simply A Miracle	Global Warming - Beyond Us	Most Likely - Given Our Nature

The Cyber War has Begun!

The strategy is boringly familiar. If it is not to stop Organized Crime, Money Laundering or Terrorism, it is to save us from Sexual Perverts and Predators. That ladies and gentlemen in "Big Brother Speak" is called "The Cover Story". With few exceptions, they have muzzled media (they being corporatists of the global persuasion) who now have command over most democratically elected governments in the West. They operate in cyberspace, not with the sovereign boundaries of either of out three empires - China, US and EU. They are beyond all law; they have bought or frightened governments and their institutions, including the courts; they have blocked the free flow of information to the few who still care (conventional corporate or government media); and that leaves only the Internet.

They have to get control over it as it is the last domino that needs to fall; the last window we have into what they are all about and how they carry out their various nefarious schemes - Work of God, indeed??? Most readers will be familiar with the attempts to muzzle the Net in North America, but now it has started in the EU - monkey see, monkey do.

Last year in Germany, the Family Minister took it upon herself to sacrifice Freedom of Speech with an Anti-Child Pornography Law. Who could argue with that? Right? Problem - it was not directed at the perpetrators; it did not empower the police and courts to deal with the issue; the solution was to block photos - as if that would have any impact whatsoever. Whom do they think they are trying to kid?

What's next destruction of works of art centuries and millenia old because they portray unclothed children and sex acts? German President Horst Köhle signed this abomination into law recently -- even though the German government had decided it no longer wanted to apply it in its existing form, after massive protests by Internet users. What in hell does that mean? I feel so much better now that they have said they will apply it differently - NOT! Once it is on the books, it is a go!

If our good friends in government were really concerned about social issues, they would pass laws to make the punishment fit the crime. Modern psychiatry admits it has no cure to this horrible stuff. Politicians and the courts do, but have chosen the wrong methods!

Deal with pedophiles, and the like, by all means. They only respond to fear - removing these materials from the Internet would have as much (or as little effect) as placing magazines under a counter.

Sex (perverted or otherwise) is not the issue of course - again it is the cover story. The problem is we have become China - such laws can be used to censor anything. Efforts to pass such laws are designed in the face of growing fear by those in power about control over freedom of speech and information. The law passed in Germany went so far as to propose blacklists of specific sites. Lists would be sent to Internet Service Providers (ISPs), which would be responsible for blocking content.

I realize I run the risk here of being seen as not on the side of the Angels. As we speak, we cannot access the John Stewart Show or clips from it without going through something called Comedy Canada. They seem to edit content, although they make programs available in full after a delay of a day or two. I want the "clips, not the whole show. And I fear what this portends.

Since it is the Comedy shows that now do the only journalism in the US, I want them. I don't know and I don't care about whether this is a US or Canadian idea, it angers me. I paid $2000 dollars for a computer, countless hundreds to upgrade software and a monthly ISP fee - now some want to charge for access and some want to censor. Censorship has never been the answer. But of course these people know that, and such is not their intent. It is all about power and control - yes - and money.

Now France is having a go at becoming the Big Brother of Europe as it Moves to Unprecedented Internet Regulation. They have another hackneyed "cover story" of course. They approved a draft bill that will admits they want CONTROL!

They say it will improve security for ordinary citizens, as civil rights activists warn of a "new level" of censorship and surveillance. The administration argues, mais non, it is a law against "digital crime.". The law is known as "Loppsi 2;" try not to laugh! Loppsi 2 has made France the EU country where the Internet is subject to the most censorship, regulation, control and surveillance.

Just like the stupid gun laws we have in Canada, the bad guys can get around such Mickey Mouse laws in five minutes and be back in the game. But they were never the target to begin with - the purpose was to disarm the population in light of what was coming - possible civil unrest caused by the total corruption of financial services and government.

If you buy their story, we are so stupid and corrupt that, even as adults, we need someone looking over our shoulders deciding if we should see the whole truth on a given subject. The truth might offend, be politically incorrect, might make you get off your butt and get involved in politics or cleaning up financial services, God Forbid. As my dear departed Grandmother wisely used to say, "You get what you put up with in this life, and if you put up with too much, don't whine. Realize it is your own fault, act or shut up!'

Here is the real kicker: the French Government will Employ malware - an approach similar to the German Internet law. Under French (and likely) German legislation, police and security forces would be able to use clandestinely installed software, a "Trojan horse," to spy on private computers. Remote access to private computers would be made possible under the supervision of a judge. I hope they have more qualified and ethical judges there than we have - of course I believe in Santa and the Easter Bunny!

Sarkozy is sticking to his hard line on the Internet - a soft target. Last year his administration pushed through the law which gives ISPs the power to block or restrict Internet access to users of illegal file-sharing sites who refuse to desist under a "three strike" system. The new legislation is simply the next step in regulating Internet use in France. [And what will be the step after that?].

Political Motivations: In a few weeks, regional elections take place. By showing himself to be a tough leader, Sarkozy hopes to shore up support. There is disappointment with his leadership and his government has low approval ratings. That is, in the face of a rampant economic crisis, growing unemployment, a devastatingly large budget deficit and various political scandals, Sarkozy is pulling out a presidential trump card - fear of criminals - much easier than dealing with the real problems.

Now, I can see the French being afraid of anything, but the Germans. What in hell has ever frightened then - certainly not a few child molesters - or have they gone soft? A hunt for pedophiles is noble. But the cost in this case is too high and doesn't have a damn thing to do with pedophiles....they are a bigger threat on a playground because the judiciary gives them a wrist slap! There is no argument that sustains controls on the digital world and introduces state surveillance for the simple reason that there are more effective ways to handle molesters. I don't buy the cover story.

If there is a hacker in Germany and France with any of the courage and principle of their fathers, they know what to do, and it is not to try and reason or to protest. Truth be told - across the West, hackers should stop being pests and become freedom fighters. Stand up you silly little buggers and do something useful. Put democratically elected governments back in power. A keyboard is a much more potent weapon in your hands that small arms or a demonstration.

More Than Just Controlling Cyberspace: This is "a serious threat" to the neutrality of the Internet. "Filtering and blocking the Web has become a standard weapon in the legislative arsenal of a government which has been shameless in its handling of personal freedoms. No Not China or Russia - now it is in the West. Think about what that means!

Loppsi 2, when it comes to restrictions, is preparing us for hell. I has a whole basket of gifts for Elitest Totalitarians and their hired functionaries, including improved integration between police files and personal data kept by, for example, banks. The goal is "improving the daily security of French citizens by maintaining the level and quality of service provided by domestic security forces. Has France heard of the KGB. There is confusion over what exactly Germany has passed into law - what hey say now matters not - what is written will carry the day in future.

So Join the Blue Ribbon Online Free Speech Campaign!
Do Something - Anything is better than Nothing!

Announcing
The Webmaster of the Year Award

Presented to James F. Roache in special recognition of his outstanding patience, intelligence, wit and warmth
by [the late] Mary (Roche) Carella, N.Y.

Chairperson
Selection Committee
Institute of Quality Assessment Online

Award was commissioned by Mary (Roche) Carella Copyright 1996-9. All Rights Reserved.

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